Converting Knights
#1
Alright gents, I have finally come to it.

I need knights.

My army has everything else I want in it, except knights. It doesn't have knights when it is a Dogs of War army, or when it's an Empire army, and I have been okay so far, but now I have hit a wall.

I want to make it useable as an Empire force, as that's usually my goal, to be able to play it as either faction with a little bit of 'counts as', but I really want to use Lietpold the Black, special character from the Tamurkhan book, who would let my 'Empire' force take a unit of Ogre Ironguts, moving them much closer to Dogs of War.

The problem is that Lietpold is a mounted character, and this isn't deal breaking, because I usually have a mounted Paymaster and he just hangs around his infantry Paymaster's Guard ('cannons be damned!' is his battle cry), but Lietpold is MADE for a cavalry unit, he adds 'extra attack' to the unit if they charge! So, I am finally ready to cave and include a unit of heavy cavalry.

Now, I love the Empire Knights, they are great sculpts, VERY realistic and, if I was using classic Dogs of War models, they would be perfectly in scale. However, pretty much everything in my army is converted Empire models, which means that the Empire Knights are painfully out of scale (weird...). Again, I would usually not mind, they aren't that bad when beside infantry, but I have 15 light cav/pistoliers, and the Knights little ponies look silly beside them. I just can't handle it. This is what has kept me off of knights for so long, and my armies have done fine before, but with Lietpold, I need them. And not a few, 15 probably for 3000pts.

So.

The point of my army was to make a Mercenary Army, an army which looks like a generally cohesive force, with a few irregular elements. The Knights, which are the generals personal guard, are going to need to look good with the mainstay of the group.

[Image: dsc01562pe.jpg]Uploaded with ImageShack.com

These Pikemen form the core concpet, armoured, professional looking, helmets, ect. This is carried on through the Crossbows:

[Image: dsc01484u.jpg]Uploaded with ImageShack.com

And will also apply to the Pistoliers and the any potential outriders, swordsmen/duelists, ect.


So, Brettonian Knights would be the easiest choice. They are simple, I have some, and I like them. But. They probably don't match up, with their chain and cloth. Does anyone have any conversion ideas that might help me make them fit a bit better? I am very willing to bash kits together until it all works.


I also saw this online, http://diceandbrush.blogspot.ca/2012/04/...-rose.html a great conversion of Chaos Knights into Empire. Mine wouldn't look like those, but the horses are darned good. My only problems are that the horses, while good for Chaos, are a little big for Empire (I know, I know, I'm so freaking picky...), and that although I have chaos knights, they are one of my favourite painted units, so I am loathe to chop them!


Why oh why couldn't GW just make a new empire knight kit!? Unfortunately if it didn't come out with the Empire book when they hardly introduced any new units, and created new Knight entries, it probably isn't happening anytime soon.
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#2
I had hoped desperately for new Knights! I tend to cut the feathers off of all my Empire models, particularly if they are going to join my Mercenary force...that is a tall order when it comes to the current knights! Would be greatly interested in what you decide and how you go about it.
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#3
well, last night out of sheer boredom I green-stuffed barding onto a pistolier's horse, as it is, obviously, at least as big as a pistoliers horse, and might do a good job as a warhorse. I put a bret horse's head on it as well. The end result is...interesting? It doesn't look bad at all, but it really doesn't look like what I want.

After some closer comparisons, the Empire General/BSB horse is as much larger than the standard Empire Knight horse as the Chaos horse is larger than it.

I am going to try and get a good look and maybe a test greenstuffing on a Marauder horse, I seem to remember it being larger/thicker than a pistolier horse, but smaller than the Chaos Knight horse, so perhaps I can do the same greenstuffed-armour I did on the pistolier horse onto it.

I would also love to get my hands on, or a really good comparison of, the armoured Empire horses drawing the War Wagons/hurrican-alter-death ray. It might not be super reasonable to use 15 of the same horses, but just seeing them would help me figure out if it was an option.
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#4
Still don't have my camera, but for the sheer madness of it, I cut, split, and greenstuffed the barding of an Empire Horse onto a Bret horse, basically removing those parts of the Bret horse and fitting the Barding into the open spaces. The rear barding actually fits alright lengthwise, though it's not wide enough by about a 1/2 millimeter, but the front barding... Wow is it ever not sized right.


So, my current options remain:

Chaos Knight conversion- Honestly, way to big for a normal human, they'll look like some kind of WoW character with their giant armour and such beside the other normally sized guys.

Greenstuff'd Pistoliers- Likely the way to go, I'll see if i can convert a good knight to start, then work on the horses.


Here's my next question. What colour should these horses actually be? I honestly know about nothing for horse colouring and appropriate breeds. What colour combinations work for Knights horses as well as Pistolier/Light Cavalry horses? My current ones are just brown, varying from light brown to dark brown.
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#5
As to converting the horses, I think your best bet would indeed be the marauder horses for your concept. However I cut up two empire captain horse repositioned ( which I had to pin all the way through,some legs were cut into 4 or 5 pieces) the legs and used some greenstuff to cover up the cuts. I have one that seems to be stomping the ground with one foot and one that is standing still on all four. naturally I also had to do some cutting to the body and neck of the models. Alas I do not have any pictures.
As to colors of our horses there are plenty of horse pictures on the net, you can however to go for a unified color of horse for the unit! The famous Scots Greys were a unit known for all riding grey horses. Generally however go for a mix of different colored horses, bron and black horses being more prevalent, all black horses and greys being less frequent and dun coloured horses being even rare. I try to give my unit champions horses colors that make them stand out from the rest of the unit. Hope this helps a little...Smile
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#6
That Empire Capatin horse idea, just using a bunch of them (possibly mixed in with the horses pulling the alters/wagons), is one that I think would work the best, but I don't know if I want to go out and buy a dozen of them. Actually, I do know, not only do I not WANT to go buy a dozen, I doubt I even could!

Going to try the marauder one as soon as I can.
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#7
That Empire Capatin horse idea, just using a bunch of them (possibly mixed in with the horses pulling the alters/wagons), is one that I think would work the best, but I don't know if I want to go out and buy a dozen of them. Actually, I do know, not only do I not WANT to go buy a dozen, I doubt I even could!

Going to try the marauder one as soon as I can.
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#8
So, I am going to borrow a few pics from other people on other forums.

This is a good side-by-side of three knights/knight concepts:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5443/97111...270a_b.jpg

The first is an Empire Knight stock (well, actually a grand master on horse, but he is stock to scale) and the second a Pistolier horse with converted knight. This shows the real scale difference, as the Pistolier horse is as much larger than the knights horse as the knights warhorse SHOULD BE than the pistoliers horse.

The third horse is a Chaos Knight horse, which actually, put in that perspective, looks about right (for Warhammer) for a warhorse compared to the pistolier horse, especially with the heavy plate barding.


Here is this fellows try at making Empire Knights in this way.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7368/97111...6b88_b.jpg

My problem is that, first of all, they look like smooth chaos knights, and second, that the 'knight' is WAY out of scale, for the Empire especially (this is from a guy who actually checked it out and decided to put REAL work into cutting his own CHAOS knights down until they were to scale with the rest of the chaos army).

The middle knight in the first picture I feel is closer to vicotry, using the Pistolier legs as a base, since they are larger than the old knight legs, in scale to the newer, heroic scaled Warhammer, even if they aren't braced the way a chargers legs should be, like the old knights (who even notices little details like that? Smile )


Then I found this:

http://i.imgur.com/bAKEPCr.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/aYpTKTs.jpg

And think I have found the solution. Chaos Horse for scale, Pistolier legs, pistolier chest, knight arms, either from the Demi-Gryph set or classic Empire Knight arms, with a mix of heads (that's a helm from the Greatswords with the Gorget, I would do Sallet helms and the like). A gritty, effective and intimidating knight, that looks reasonable (for Warhammer) compared to everything else in the army.

BUT.... It would cost a ton. Or so I thought. Until I priced it out.

I went to Hoard'O Bits (hope it's okay to namedrop like that), a bits selling website I found, and started searching around, and came up with this list:

WARHAMMER BIN BITS CHAOS KNIGHTS - 5x HORSE BODIES
3x $8.99 $8.09
= $24.27

02072013-6-40 [X]
WARHAMMER BIN BITS CHAOS KNIGHTS - 5x HORSE HEADS
3x $4.99 $4.49
= $13.47

03262013-1-42 [X]
WARHAMMER BIN BITS EMPIRE DEMIGRYPH KNIGHTS - KNIGHT ARMS (five left arms and a sword arm for the leader)
1x $6.49 $5.84
= $5.84

03262013-1-43 [X]
WARHAMMER BIN BITS EMPIRE DEMIGRYPH KNIGHTS - LANCES and BANNERS (comes with one lance arm, two lances in hands, and one banner pole and arm)
2x $3.49 $3.14
= $6.28

03262013-2-21 [X]
WARHAMMER BIN BITS EMPIRE PISTOLIERS - 5x RIDER BODIES
3x $4.99 $4.49
= $13.47

WARHAMMER BIN BITS EMPIRE KNIGHTS - HEADS
1x $4.99 $4.49 (a mix of 18 heads)
= $4.49

WARHAMMER BIN BITS EMPIRE KNIGHTS - LANCE and ARMS
1x $5.99 $5.39 (comes with 8 lance arms sets, two sword arms)
= $5.39


So, with this, I could make 15 Chaos horses, with 15 pistolier legs and bodies. They would get 8 Empire lance arm sets, three demigryph lance arm sets, one demigryph sword/captain arm set, one demigryph standard arm set. That gives me 13 guys with heads, arms, bodies and horses. I would need to scrounce one arm set (I am SURE I know someone with an extra knight arm) and a musician (again, no problem). They would have a few penants, and I would have to find my own bits.

The end result? $83 dollars, including shipping. It's $42 for 8 Empire Knights. It is almost the EXACT SAME COST to make these knights ($1 less and 15 instead of 16), so I can't argue against it!


So, next stop, figuring out how to sell things on Ebay. Going to try and unload some Warhammer I am never going to get around to so I can place this order. Huzzah!
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#9
These look pretty good, they remind me of the Marauder line of Rieksguard minis from back in the day.
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