09-07-2010, 11:29 AM
Nobody going to throw Monty's beret into the ring?
09-07-2010, 06:35 PM
Funily enough, I was about to. He deserves his place alongside Wellington in British History imho!
09-13-2010, 05:26 PM
I think one of my picks.. would be General Omar Bradley..
People tend to overlook him alot as he wasnt a Primadonna like Montgomery or Patton. He was a Soldier's General, the person who didn't want for anything other than the respect of the soldiers under his command and the accomplishment of objectives. He is known to have been the reason for much both Monty's and Patton's Fame. At the Battle of the Bulge it was the 1st Army Division that managed to hold the Germany Western Flank at bay while Patton broke combat nearly 100 miles south to engage their southern flank.. Without that maneuver The Battle of the Bulge would have never happened as history named it. Later.. Monty took credit for Bradley's victory due to military Politics placing the American 1st Army under the command of Montgomery's 21rd Army Group. But history shows that little in the way of contact between the 2 was actually conducted as Monty knew Bradley was a person he could count on for the Victory. Monty knew this from Market Garden when Bradley managed to hold the front lines with only 1 army group while Monty tried an unsuccessful advance across the Rhine north of the Seigfied Line. ... Ok wow, Rant much..
In ending Bradley FTW~!
People tend to overlook him alot as he wasnt a Primadonna like Montgomery or Patton. He was a Soldier's General, the person who didn't want for anything other than the respect of the soldiers under his command and the accomplishment of objectives. He is known to have been the reason for much both Monty's and Patton's Fame. At the Battle of the Bulge it was the 1st Army Division that managed to hold the Germany Western Flank at bay while Patton broke combat nearly 100 miles south to engage their southern flank.. Without that maneuver The Battle of the Bulge would have never happened as history named it. Later.. Monty took credit for Bradley's victory due to military Politics placing the American 1st Army under the command of Montgomery's 21rd Army Group. But history shows that little in the way of contact between the 2 was actually conducted as Monty knew Bradley was a person he could count on for the Victory. Monty knew this from Market Garden when Bradley managed to hold the front lines with only 1 army group while Monty tried an unsuccessful advance across the Rhine north of the Seigfied Line. ... Ok wow, Rant much..
In ending Bradley FTW~!
09-24-2010, 06:26 PM
I disagree with the idea of Bradley as a "great" general. He was extremely competant, but not either a battlefield innovator, or a superb inspirational leader. His victory at the battle of the Bulge was primarily due to his former boss being able to pull off one of the greatest manouveres in war (I am referring to Patton's disengagement, forced march then move right into battle). that plan wasn't Omar's, it was Patton's.
The best way to refer to Bradley would be as a second tier to some of the first tier lads named above.
The best way to refer to Bradley would be as a second tier to some of the first tier lads named above.
03-09-2011, 09:39 AM
As a Finn my choice is Field Marshall Carl Gustav Emil Mannerheim.
Mannerheim got his baptism of fire as a Lieutenant Colonel in Russo-Japanese war. His prompt actions in the otherwise disastrous Battle of Mukden enabled the Russians to retreat and prevented the complete destruction of the Russian field army. It is said that an orderly retreat is the most difficult maneuevre on field, and preventing a complete loss is far more difficult than winning a battle. He was promptly promoted to Colonel on field.
He was then transferred to long range reconnaissance force. He made a 14 000 kilometer expedition in Siberia, Mongolia and China into uncharted territory on horseback, and besides providing recce information, he also promoted ethnological research, surveying and anthropology on this expedition. He spent two years (1906-1908) on this tour and learned Chinese.
In World War I he served on Polish, Galician, Rumanian and Bukovinian fronts as reconnaissance and long range cavalry force commander. His successful campaigns earned eventually him Lieutenant General rank.
When the Russian revolution began in 1917, Mannerheim was 50 and he thought his military career was now over. Little did he know it was only to begin.
As the Czarist Russian army collapsed, Mannerheim escaped to Finland, which had declared herself independent. Unfortunately, Finland itself fell into civil war, between Whites (the bourgeoisie) and Reds (the Communists). The acting Finnish parliament promptly nominated Mannerheim as the commander-in-chief of the White Army - which was nothing but a rag-a-tag force of conscripted civilians with hunting rifles and shotguns and artillery confiscated from Czarist garrisons. Against to all odds he managed to forge the White Army in a fighting force and win the Civil War by May 1918. He was now a full General.
Political plotting led into Mannerheim resigning from the post of commander-in-chief of the newly founded Finnish Army and he retired into civilian life.
In 1939 it became inevitable that again a war would ensue. Mannerheim was promptly called into service and again nominated as Commander-in-Chief and promoted into Field Marshall. USSR attacked in November 1939, and Winter War begun.
Against all odds Finland managed to defend itself against the Communist hordes for three months in freezing winter, and even perform counter-attacks. Mannerheim knew both his troops and his enemy, and the miracle of Winter War was born. Finland was estimated to collapse in two weeks. She held her own for three months, until Stalin was ready to negotiate for peace.
Mannerheim knew that a new war was inevitable, and he made Finland to prepare for it. It began 1941 and it was known as Continuation War. As the initial Soviet aggression didn't lead into attack to Finland, the Finns themselves decided to attack, and they did. The Finnish troops advanced deep into Russian Karelia.
It is claimed that if Finns had cut the Murmansk Railroad and the Road of Life of Leningrad, the city of Leningrad (today again St. Petersburg) would have fallen to German hands. Yet Mannerheim knew Stalin would never have forgiven it. Mannerheim trusted more on his enemies (Russians) than on his allies (Germans) and foresaw that Germans would have arranged an orgy of murder, rape and plunder had Leningrad, and denied any further attacks against it.
As the tide of the WWII had turned against Germany and the Summer Offensive in Karelia 1944 smashed the Finnish lines, Mannerheim was again called to arrange the forces into defensive. He did, and he decided to arrange an ambush and counter-offensive at Tali, near Vyborg. An all-out offensive ensued, and the Soviet Karelian offensive was crushed. Finnish troops were again on advance, and the front lines stabilized. At that point Stalin was again ready to offer peace for Finland, and not demand unconditional surrender. President Ryti resigned, and Field Marshall Mannerheim was nominated as the President of Finland.
He signed the peace treaty 4. September 1944. As the President Mannerheim was able to pilot Finland through very perilous time, and saving the independence and free democratic constitution. Finland was never occupied and never conquered. As the German troops stationed in Lapland refused to retreat peacefully as were the conditions of the peace treaty, Finland declared war to its erstwhile ally, Germany. The Lapland war ensued.
Finns, used to war in wilderness and with rudimentary gear in severe conditions, were able to push the German alpine troops into Norway. Finland was fully liberated from Nazis 27 April 1945.
Stalin was a dictator and a ruthless bully, but he respected force and he knew Mannerheim was an enemy he could rely on and respect. As Mannerheim was fluent in Russian, and a man on whose eyes could no wool be pulled, he was able to convince Stalin that Finland posed no danger on USSR and would let no one - be it Anglo-American, Soviet or Nazi - forces use her territory against him. He acted as the President of Finland during the perilous post-war years.
Field Marshall Mannerheim finally passed away in 1951. His grave is in Hietaniemi cemetary in Helsinki.
Let's now quote Sun Tzu:
The hallmark of generalship is not being victorious in 100 battles. The hallmark of generalship is winning the war without a single battle.
If that qualifies, Holy Roman Emperor Friedrich II (Hohenstaufen) certainly will rank among the greatest. He managed to achieve with manouevre what the whole Christendom had attempted to do for 50 years with force without success - to recapture Jerusalem 1227.
And someone already mentioned Georg von Frundsberg, "the Father of Landsknechts". It is from him whom the term "warlord" - Kriegsherr - comes from.
Mannerheim got his baptism of fire as a Lieutenant Colonel in Russo-Japanese war. His prompt actions in the otherwise disastrous Battle of Mukden enabled the Russians to retreat and prevented the complete destruction of the Russian field army. It is said that an orderly retreat is the most difficult maneuevre on field, and preventing a complete loss is far more difficult than winning a battle. He was promptly promoted to Colonel on field.
He was then transferred to long range reconnaissance force. He made a 14 000 kilometer expedition in Siberia, Mongolia and China into uncharted territory on horseback, and besides providing recce information, he also promoted ethnological research, surveying and anthropology on this expedition. He spent two years (1906-1908) on this tour and learned Chinese.
In World War I he served on Polish, Galician, Rumanian and Bukovinian fronts as reconnaissance and long range cavalry force commander. His successful campaigns earned eventually him Lieutenant General rank.
When the Russian revolution began in 1917, Mannerheim was 50 and he thought his military career was now over. Little did he know it was only to begin.
As the Czarist Russian army collapsed, Mannerheim escaped to Finland, which had declared herself independent. Unfortunately, Finland itself fell into civil war, between Whites (the bourgeoisie) and Reds (the Communists). The acting Finnish parliament promptly nominated Mannerheim as the commander-in-chief of the White Army - which was nothing but a rag-a-tag force of conscripted civilians with hunting rifles and shotguns and artillery confiscated from Czarist garrisons. Against to all odds he managed to forge the White Army in a fighting force and win the Civil War by May 1918. He was now a full General.
Political plotting led into Mannerheim resigning from the post of commander-in-chief of the newly founded Finnish Army and he retired into civilian life.
In 1939 it became inevitable that again a war would ensue. Mannerheim was promptly called into service and again nominated as Commander-in-Chief and promoted into Field Marshall. USSR attacked in November 1939, and Winter War begun.
Against all odds Finland managed to defend itself against the Communist hordes for three months in freezing winter, and even perform counter-attacks. Mannerheim knew both his troops and his enemy, and the miracle of Winter War was born. Finland was estimated to collapse in two weeks. She held her own for three months, until Stalin was ready to negotiate for peace.
Mannerheim knew that a new war was inevitable, and he made Finland to prepare for it. It began 1941 and it was known as Continuation War. As the initial Soviet aggression didn't lead into attack to Finland, the Finns themselves decided to attack, and they did. The Finnish troops advanced deep into Russian Karelia.
It is claimed that if Finns had cut the Murmansk Railroad and the Road of Life of Leningrad, the city of Leningrad (today again St. Petersburg) would have fallen to German hands. Yet Mannerheim knew Stalin would never have forgiven it. Mannerheim trusted more on his enemies (Russians) than on his allies (Germans) and foresaw that Germans would have arranged an orgy of murder, rape and plunder had Leningrad, and denied any further attacks against it.
As the tide of the WWII had turned against Germany and the Summer Offensive in Karelia 1944 smashed the Finnish lines, Mannerheim was again called to arrange the forces into defensive. He did, and he decided to arrange an ambush and counter-offensive at Tali, near Vyborg. An all-out offensive ensued, and the Soviet Karelian offensive was crushed. Finnish troops were again on advance, and the front lines stabilized. At that point Stalin was again ready to offer peace for Finland, and not demand unconditional surrender. President Ryti resigned, and Field Marshall Mannerheim was nominated as the President of Finland.
He signed the peace treaty 4. September 1944. As the President Mannerheim was able to pilot Finland through very perilous time, and saving the independence and free democratic constitution. Finland was never occupied and never conquered. As the German troops stationed in Lapland refused to retreat peacefully as were the conditions of the peace treaty, Finland declared war to its erstwhile ally, Germany. The Lapland war ensued.
Finns, used to war in wilderness and with rudimentary gear in severe conditions, were able to push the German alpine troops into Norway. Finland was fully liberated from Nazis 27 April 1945.
Stalin was a dictator and a ruthless bully, but he respected force and he knew Mannerheim was an enemy he could rely on and respect. As Mannerheim was fluent in Russian, and a man on whose eyes could no wool be pulled, he was able to convince Stalin that Finland posed no danger on USSR and would let no one - be it Anglo-American, Soviet or Nazi - forces use her territory against him. He acted as the President of Finland during the perilous post-war years.
Field Marshall Mannerheim finally passed away in 1951. His grave is in Hietaniemi cemetary in Helsinki.
Let's now quote Sun Tzu:
The hallmark of generalship is not being victorious in 100 battles. The hallmark of generalship is winning the war without a single battle.
If that qualifies, Holy Roman Emperor Friedrich II (Hohenstaufen) certainly will rank among the greatest. He managed to achieve with manouevre what the whole Christendom had attempted to do for 50 years with force without success - to recapture Jerusalem 1227.
And someone already mentioned Georg von Frundsberg, "the Father of Landsknechts". It is from him whom the term "warlord" - Kriegsherr - comes from.
10-06-2011, 10:24 AM
Hey ..
Tel me first that how you are categorizing these Generals ..
Their performance
their personality
their brutality
or some thing other ...
if only generals than what about the Hitler
Tel me first that how you are categorizing these Generals ..
Their performance
their personality
their brutality
or some thing other ...
if only generals than what about the Hitler
10-06-2011, 11:06 AM
Seriously??? O_O you even have to ask about Hitler?
I'd say leave him out not only for the atroctieies committed by him let alone the poor Internet form of doing so.
I'd say leave him out not only for the atroctieies committed by him let alone the poor Internet form of doing so.
10-06-2011, 12:37 PM
Reasonably certain that's a spambot, even though it has no links or anything.
10-06-2011, 03:46 PM
Yeah I thought the same thing as well.
Was raring to fight that one out
Was raring to fight that one out
10-14-2011, 06:14 PM
Genghis Khan was born in a tent in an arid land and had the audacity to kick "more civilized" peoples' cans repeatedly. This guy embraced and utilized the most effective technology he ever discovered, both in the field and to have effective sieges. Genghis understood the Blitz before the Germans did. The loyalty and skill of his men were incredible. It was the scariest force on the planet for a very long time. So, his "coaching" hat as a general is under appreciated. Most games and wars are won before the men hit the pitch/field. Most importantly, Genghis knew how to keep what he conquered. Many generals are ONLY field tacticians, "coaches," or administrators, but Genghis was the complete package.
In Warhammer, Genghis and his horde could possibly be hobgoblins, but these hobgoblins would have a much higher leadership and better ballistic skill. They would possibly either have hatred (to represent their veteran skill) or cause fear because of their reputation, or both. The hobgoblin army would also have access to siege warfare devices. Am I slurping this guy too much?
In Warhammer, Genghis and his horde could possibly be hobgoblins, but these hobgoblins would have a much higher leadership and better ballistic skill. They would possibly either have hatred (to represent their veteran skill) or cause fear because of their reputation, or both. The hobgoblin army would also have access to siege warfare devices. Am I slurping this guy too much?
10-15-2011, 09:39 AM
haha perhaps!
One would have to include Grant in this list as well. His Vicksburg campaign is regarded as one of the finest military campaigns ever.
One would have to include Grant in this list as well. His Vicksburg campaign is regarded as one of the finest military campaigns ever.
11-19-2011, 01:01 PM
For me? I have quite the strange list:
Vercingetorix
Clovis I
Frederick I Barbarossa
Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
Vercingetorix
Clovis I
Frederick I Barbarossa
Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
11-23-2011, 11:14 AM
Temujin
Alexander the great
Napoleon
Scipio Africanus
Duke of Marlborough
Alexander the great
Napoleon
Scipio Africanus
Duke of Marlborough