(11-16-2010 02:36 PM)Brom Wrote: [ -> ]Way of the Warrior:
Enemy models striking at a model with this rule are at -1 To Hit. In addition, models with this rule may never choose ‘Flee’ as a charge reaction and must always accept challenges. In addition, they may re-roll all failed Psychology tests and ignores Panic caused by friendly
units without this rule.
- I was thinking of saving the -1 to hit for the halflings personally, and possibly giving them the merciless strike rule as the army-wide rules instead of the re-roll 1's to hit and to wound, though I see merit in your version as well.
(11-16-2010 02:36 PM)Brom Wrote: [ -> ]Katana:
The Katana counts as a hand weapon. All attacks with a Katana are resolved at +1 to wound, even if mounted.
- This was something I've considered as well, but the problem with +1 to wound means you'll be wounding on 5+ at worst, even against war machines and the like. It can be fixed, but it requires a lot of wording and becomes needlessly complicated.
(11-16-2010 02:36 PM)Brom Wrote: [ -> ]Sashimonos:
The sashimono are small banners fitted to the backs of Ashigaru (15 pts/unit), Samurai (25 pts/unit), and in special holders on the horses of Samurai Cavalry (35 pts/unit) and Red Devils (35 pts/unit). Sashimono are used to identify friendly troops and to make the unit seem larger than it actually is. In game terms, and for the purposes of combat resolution and Steadfast, a unit equipped with Shashimonos counts as having one more rank than normal and may therefore claim an additional +1 rank bonus.
- This, I quite like. I think I will include that actually
(11-16-2010 02:36 PM)Brom Wrote: [ -> ]Horo Cloaks:
Horo Cloaks are often worn by mounted Nipponese warriors. Fashioned of finely woven silk, Horo Cloaks are wrapped around the body to catch arrows and other missile weapons. Any Ballistic Skill based shooting attack directed at a model equipped with a Horo Cloak is resolved at -1 Strength. Horo Cloaks have no effect on black powder weapons. (+4 pts/ model, +4 pts/taisho, +6 pts/daimo)
- Also rather interesting, I think I could include that as well, but I think I would reserve it for the Red Devils then, makes them stand out a bit more.
(11-16-2010 02:36 PM)Brom Wrote: [ -> ]We have also increased Hatamoto to 14 pts/model and 2 attacks each. Besides these changes listed everything else we have left alone. So far we have found these changes to be good and not OP'd in the context of this book, although further testing will tell for sure. Now for a humble request; Please Please Please write an Early Imperial Roman book for WHF!! Thank you, Brom.
- I am thinking of raising their WS to 5 actually, but leave their attacks at 1. At 2A each, they will be a lot better choice than sumo warriors since they are not striking last, and are also stubborn and ItP.
As for the Roman army book, I've have no such plans for warhammer I'm afraid, the closest thing you would come to that are the Reman army in Tilea, which is already incorporated in the Dogs of War book. Don't think I could come up with anything interesting there anyway, they would pretty much be historical Romans with a few fey creatures, so you might as well play warhammer ancients then
-The -1 to hit would certainly be fitting for halflings, hadn't thought of that and merciless strike is a great army wide rule for sure, would really like to see this. This would also be a good rule for Ronin.
-Concerning the katana, we were simply trying to make the weapon more worthwhile when compared to the halberd. I see how it reads "always wound on 5+" but I don't understand how that effects war machines too much since attacks are made against the crews WS and toughness. Have also thought of something similar to a cathayan longsword but that seemed too good for an army wide weapon.
-Thank you for the kind words on the sashimonos and horo cloaks
the sashimonos are especially nice for medium sized shooting units. Good call on the horo cloaks, limiting them to the Red Devils really solidifies the unit without going the direction of more armour I think.
-The Hatamoto are more difficult for me. It is true that they become very killy with S5 2 attacks and merciless strike, but with only a single attack and situational stubborn it just seems better to take more core samurai with halberds rather than having to buy a fighty character and then risk seppuku. WS5 would help quite a bit and so would making them always stubborn, yet only gaining itp when guarding a character (just tossing out ideas here). Sumo on the other hand are good and have proven to be a valuable choice with T4 S6 2 attacks + optional crushing grip attack. The addition of merciless strike will only make them better.
-As for the Romans, I figured as much. We have also attempted a Roman army list but so far it is really short on fantasy type elements. We dabbled very briefly in WAB but the game never even got off the ground around here.
EDIT- I changed/edited out some text (is that acceptable?) After doing some math on Hatamoto it turns out WS 5 is almost as good as 2 attacks vs. lower WS troops, I think you are right, this is preferable to 2 attacks.
All right then, I have made some changes accordingly, and will post an update quite soon. The Katana will grant +1 to wound, but only against foes with the same toughness or lower as the Strength of the Attack of the wielder. That means your normal samurai won't be wounding Toughness 5-6 models on a 5+ any more, which would make them severely better than a halberd in many cases. I could ofc make it +1S that does not affect AS, but that would make it a bit too similar to the halberd imo.
What does Merciless Strike do?
...delivering a complex series of perfectly timed strikes designed to wound and maim multiple opponents with each strike. For each successful roll to wound (before saves), a model with the merciless strike rule may immediately make an additional attack. These additional attacks do not benefit from the Merciless Strike rule.
Its like hatred only less powerful and gets progressively worse the higher the opponents toughness.
I did make a small change there, namely giving them Attacks after saves instead of before. The rule currently works just like Red Fury from the VC book, which is a 50 pts ability. Otherwise you will have characters that will absolutely rip through everything and lords that cost over 150 pts without equipment. Normal samurai will still see an attack increase of 30% against normal troops if equipped with a katana, and more if equipped with halberds/additional HW's.
Good call, I think it is an appropriate change as it moves the rule even further away from hatred and matches the concept better. I am really looking forward to seeing the updates of all your books!
Happy Thanks Giving to everyone! So after further testing with 'merciless strike' as the army-wide rule, and with the latest suggested changes as well, I am of the opinion that Hatamoto need to see a points increase to 13 points/model. Sumo are also very good with this rule, putting them somewhere in the same ballpark with khornate warriors, only slightly cheaper, although non-core which definitely matters. Also it should be noted that the Sumo unit I have been testing takes the iron crane standard which makes them alot more killy in the first round. Overall I absolutely love the inclusion of merciless strike as an army-wide rule and would like to see this rule, among others, make the final cut for revisions. However it does seem to warrant a price increase for Hatamoto. Any other thoughts or experiences with these rules?
There will definitely be a slight increase for most units with this rule, Hatamoto will be 13 pts each, and Sumo Warriors 15 pts. Normal Samurai will be upped to 9pts each basic.
They will however be able to flee from charges now, to give them some options for tactical play. Heck, even the Bretonnians and Chaos Warriors can do that, so restricting the Samurai might be a little too much.
Excellent news, especially allowing samurai a flee reaction! Also the points seem about right for all three units now. I am really looking forward to these updates, as well as several of your other books. Are you planning on releasing the updates all at once or as you finish each one?
That would be all at once, saves me some time and makes it easier to remember which ones I have updated.
M4 Any word on when the latest changes to your books will be up for viewing? We are all dying to see what you've come up with!
I have actually been thinking of including a war machine á la "Dragon's Breath", but I'm not so sure they would actually need it. Might leave it out for now. I'll see if I can't put up the new list by this weekend though.
This weekend would be perfect as we could play with all your latest changes. A war machine would be awesome, although Im not sure they 'need' it either. Also it immediately brings to mind the Thunder Dragons ranged weapon. Personally I would prefer a war machine over the dragon as it seems more historical, like samurai, but that's just me.
Edit: not saying I want to play WAB, just that war machines are cool...especially Flaming ones.
Sorry to drag this from the deep but I congratulate on your effort in making so many army books. Just a few things I wanted to ask
Why is the timeline 1000 years behind the Old World calendar? Or did I mis read something?
Ashigaru gunners imo should be able to be fielded at 10 men. 20 costs a bit and they are a bit unwieldy
Chould Ashigaru have access to pikes?
Should Ronin be skirmishers? In 8th where steadfast rules supreme, these guys might have it tough even with unbreakable. They're a lot like dwarf slayers but slayers still form units
(07-13-2011 02:38 PM)kenshin620 Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry to drag this from the deep but I congratulate on your effort in making so many army books. Just a few things I wanted to ask
Why is the timeline 1000 years behind the Old World calendar? Or did I mis read something?
First sentence of the part "Land of the rising sun":
"Nippon is a relatively young nation, barely counting
about 1200 years since its founding. Nippon was
originally part of Cathay, settled by colonists from
Cathay more than 4500 years ago."
The calender is Nippon's own, which starts a lot later than the Imperial one, just like the Bretonnian one.
(07-13-2011 02:38 PM)kenshin620 Wrote: [ -> ]Ashigaru gunners imo should be able to be fielded at 10 men. 20 costs a bit and they are a bit unwieldy
- Originally, they didn't have that option. Seeing as Ashigaru are meant to be fielded in large units, I would have to add another choice in the actual army list in order to accommodate for just that weapon option. Goblin archers do have to make due in hose unit sizes, so it's manageable.
(07-13-2011 02:38 PM)kenshin620 Wrote: [ -> ]Chould Ashigaru have access to pikes?
- I would say no there. Pikes are reserved for the Dogs of War and to a small extent, Estalia. If GW would add pikes to the basic weapons list, they would get it too, otherwise it would require a rather long paragraph just for one of 5 weapon options for that unit.
(07-13-2011 02:38 PM)kenshin620 Wrote: [ -> ]Should Ronin be skirmishers? In 8th where steadfast rules supreme, these guys might have it tough even with unbreakable. They're a lot like dwarf slayers but slayers still form units
- The point is to not be exactly like the Dwarf Slayers, and operate differently. The Ronin are meant to fulfil the role of a manoeuvrable anvil unit, whereas the Hatamoto is the more common stationary one. Having them ranked would also make them more difficult to differentiate from normal Samurai Warriors, since they tend to look rather similar.
(07-13-2011 03:45 PM)M4cR1II3n Wrote: [ -> ]First sentence of the part "Land of the rising sun":
"Nippon is a relatively young nation, barely counting
about 1200 years since its founding. Nippon was
originally part of Cathay, settled by colonists from
Cathay more than 4500 years ago."
The calender is Nippon's own, which starts a lot later than the Imperial one, just like the Bretonnian one.
Ah, I need to read better! I completely for got about bretonnia calendar but to be fair GW did put an Empire equivalent right next to it.
(07-13-2011 03:45 PM)M4cR1II3n Wrote: [ -> ]- Originally, they didn't have that option. Seeing as Ashigaru are meant to be fielded in large units, I would have to add another choice in the actual army list in order to accommodate for just that weapon option. Goblin archers do have to make due in hose unit sizes, so it's manageable.
Hmm goblin archers though are almost 1/3 the price and can volley fire so you dont have to be deployed x10 wide. Granted they have short bows and unlike corssbows/gunners arent taken to kill thing at ranged, more of a speed bump that can peck at things before getting into a brawl. Still +20 models seems to be reserved for non humans like skaven, "hordey" human units like men at arms, states troops, and marauders still have min sizes of 10 (but are usually taken in larger numbers). Even the undead hordes of the tomb kings with their cheap skeleton warriors have min sizes of 10.
(07-13-2011 03:45 PM)M4cR1II3n Wrote: [ -> ]- I would say no there. Pikes are reserved for the Dogs of War and to a small extent, Estalia. If GW would add pikes to the basic weapons list, they would get it too, otherwise it would require a rather long paragraph just for one of 5 weapon options for that unit.
Ah, understandable. I just thought it would be a good idea since they dont have shields so their armor is going to disappear really fast. Mind as well give them a bit of an edge compared to old world/new world spearmen (although I really only see lizardmen/DE/HE since supporting attacks make halberds a more attractive choice to bretonnians/empire)
(07-13-2011 03:45 PM)M4cR1II3n Wrote: [ -> ]- The point is to not be exactly like the Dwarf Slayers, and operate differently. The Ronin are meant to fulfil the role of a manoeuvrable anvil unit, whereas the Hatamoto is the more common stationary one. Having them ranked would also make them more difficult to differentiate from normal Samurai Warriors, since they tend to look rather similar.
Hmm I suppose you speak the truth, I'm just a bit of a disgruntled WE fan I suppose. Our skirmisher dont do as much as they did compared to 7th
Still, wanted to thank you for continuing support and interest with this project, I know many fan books are made and then the creator quickly disappears/pulls the plug after a while