Thanks for the feedback, don't worry about the length of it
1 - Glory of the Dragon Emperor - this rule is quite convoluted, and by reports, a standard rule in the 8th Edition. The simplest thing is to grant all horde units Fight in two ranks, and spears to have fight in 3 ranks, and lower their abilities to that of M@A. Nothing points to Qin soldiers having large numbers of quality troops. Instead, there were large numbers of soldiers who looked like they were quality, but instead just armoured in such armour - such as during the defence against the Mongols.
- Won't know for sure until 8th ofc, but all signs points to it, yes. I will still wait and see what 8th brings first, and change everything that is necessary then.
2 - Repeater Crossbows seem alright. Not sure on the 16" Range though. If someone positions their Cavalry correctly, they'll be virtually unusable - BS3, Long Range, Multiple Shots = hitting on 6's. 10 of them, with 30 shots is 5 hits, wounding on 4's-5's... Combine that with S+S, and you're hitting even less. I'd give them 18" Range.
- They are not meant to be great against heavy cavalry. 5 hits is pretty good for most units, since most only get 3 on long range with 24".
3 - Fire Lance - In history, fire lances were only for infantry. The Gunpowder unsettled the horses, and were the primary deterrent for Song infantry against the Jin and Mongols when their Pikes weren't available. That aside, the sheer physics of firing the Lance on the charge would stop the benefit of the lances, or levelled Halberds. Fire Lances were PURELY defensive for this purpose. Again, That aside, I'd simplify it and just say on the charge, each model causes a S4 AP Impact hit.
- I know they were infantry only irl, but there is not really any other unit in the army that it fits having them on. The impact hit works though, I'll use that, thanks.
4 - Hill Tribe Raiders - getting to choose where to come on. I'd suggest something akin to the Ambush rules from Beastmen in 6th - not being a part of the Imperial Army, choosing where the general wants them to come on seems a bit strange.
- Fixed.
5 - Swordsaints - not entirely sure why they have S4. But a good unit nonetheless.
- 2A at Strength 3 will do very little damage to most units, black guard aren't even that killy with re-roll to hits (or maybe it's just me who can't roll good on to wound...), and Swordsaints has neither stubborn nor itp to fall back on. It's for balance purposes, to make them worth a special choice.
6 - I'm not sure on the Crescent Blades - personally, I'd instead give them Poisoned and Lethal Shot Throwing Knives, with the ability to choose a target with a -1 to hit. This gives them a -2 at long range, which combined with Poison is excellent chance to still wound, and Killing Blow chance to get rid of those on horseback.
- I've changed them to just KB.
7 - Emperors Guard - sound good, but I'm not sure they're really that useful, all things aside, especially if you use the above suggestion for Glory of the Dragon Emperor. 8 S4 and 7 S3 Attacks just isn't worth spending 140pts for. They can't hold the line, and there are far more cheaper options such as Imperial Infantry for that.
- 14A, half of them at S4 not good? Say whaaat? And with stubborn, how do they NOT hold the line?
8 - Foo Statues - why would they be able to break? I know Terracotta Warriors are present etc, but why would a contruct break? Might be worth looking into the Crumble rules, but granting Wu Jen etc the ability to heal Foo and Terracotta Warriors as a bonus spell.
- Didn't want to make them overpowered there, and I try to limit the number of "undead" units in the army. Think of them as Treekin.
9 - Phoenix - I think Magic Attacks would be helpful to this. Fiery Blaze, I think should be replaced by Bound Spell Spirit of the Forge. FAR more interesting - and it's also not the reason why Flamers are so damned hated - D6 Automatic hits just for being shot at is not a good reason - Terror Bombing and Fire Blazing an enemy line, and then coming back after being slain is a really powerful combination - imagine this - terror bomb, D6 S4 automatic hits on 3 units, charged, killed (or not, in which case its twice as bad), overrun, D6 S4 hits, charge into the back of the enemy, fear, +2 combat resolution, D6 S4 hits on 3 units, kills a few in base contact, rinse and repeat.
- It should rather cast fireball than Spirit of the Forge, it's not an alchemist
. Terror-bombing and stripping ranks is it's job, you don't get any flank or rear bonus with it since it's only US3. Most other monsters can take on blocks to their front, the Phoenix will die even if it attacks in the rear. I'm gonna playtest it before making any changes at least.
10 - Kirin, as mentioned, I'd suggest 2W or 2A.
- Lowered it to 2A. Its should still have 3W liek any other pegasus.
11 - Drum and Gong - Army Wide Musician? Sounds alright, but is really quite useless on all but Monsters who are capable of winning their combats on their own, and some units which are either unbreakable or not meant to be in combat. I'd stack it with normal musicians (drawn = +2). Also, what happens if the drum is in combat? There's no one to beat the drum then. Perhaps grant +1 Ld if within 12" as well? It's just not really that viable at the minute.
- It is stacking with normal musicians, I'll clarify that. And it won't able to sound while in combat either. I'd like to stay of the leadership bonus for now though.
12 - Yin and Yang idea is good, but overcomplicated. Needs a reword but otherwise good.
- Overcomplicated how? You cast, Yin, Yang, Yin, Yang and so forth. cast to successful Yin's in a row and you got a miscast.
13 - Armour of the Earth - meh, it's alright. I sort of imagined granting them a RiP Terracotta Warrior armour - Scaly Skin, Immune to Poison, MR1 while in play.
- Scaly Skin ain't bad though, actually, I think I'll use that
14 - Lightning Strike - this is Uranons thunderbolt, but worse. It seems as if you just ran out of ideas here.
- Well, I wanted something to be similar to that spell. Any suggestions otherwise?
15 - Warlord Cathayan Longsword - is 20 points for +1WS and I worth it? As a Magic Weapon, you get the benefit of it being Magic. Personally, I'd say up the cost of the Warlord by +10, and grant the Warlord a Cathayan Longsword, which he may swap for free for any of the other options, or Hand Weapon and Shield. He may choose to buy a shield on top of his options though.
- Could lower it to 15 pts, but extra WS and I is pretty useful in a challenge. I guess I could make it standard equipment though.
16 - Wu Jen - IMHO, I think these would suit a Celestial Dragon as an option. The lores aren't overly powerful, and even with spells like Awakening, the Dragons footprint would cancel out some of it's effectiveness.
- Not sure you are saying here, you want the dragon to cast spells or the Wu jen to able to ride a dragon?
17 - Strategist - Would they really be part of the battle? Why not have a Warlord take "Strategists" as a Wizard takes "Magic Levels" - but for every X amount of points he spends, he takes up a hero choice?
- Seen "Red cliff"? In the three kingdoms, Zhuge Zilong led whole armies himself. Think of them as an empire engineer variant, a support hero. Lord level strategist would allow you to use every single ability in the art of awr, which is just a little to many rules to remember for one battle.
18 - Celestial Dragon - NONONONONONO. There's a reason that it's only Sun Dragons who are Hero choices. Can you imagine the abuse at a 1500 Game when you turn up with 2 Celestial Dragons, and a Wu Jen with Iron Wand on Warhorse, minimum Imperial Infantry, Mangudai, and the rest Celestial Dragon Monks? That's 2 Lord Level Dragons, enemy casters have -2 to cast spells effectively, Imperial Infantry holding strong, Mangudai horse archers taking out Skirmishers, war machines, and small detachments, and Celestial Dragon Monks holding enemy blocks using the Tortoise.
- More restrictions needed? Like one per Lord or not more dragons than other characters?
19 - Spear of Tao'la - does this mean it can be used as a Ballista, or rather that it's attacks pierce ranks? Does it have User Strength +1 on the charge, or S6+1 on the charge? Also, does it pierce ranks even when in a static combat, rather than on the charge? Seems a bit strange that it would do that the latter.
- I've given this to a special character, changed description as well.
20 - Sword of the Wave - does this generate further hits? Otherwise he auto hits in close combat? Getting another attack would mean that he needs to roll to hit, and if they fail, he gains another attack, etc etc.
- Sry, it should be: "For each attack (not hit) that misses the character in close combat he may make a single attack back immediately." Clearer now?
21 - Spineripper - could be open to some consternation - simplest would be to say when the character benefits from Combat Resolution granted by Flank or Rear charging, he recieves +1S and +1A.
- Changed to "The character gains +1 Strength and +1 Attacks when attacking an enemy unit in the flank or rear."
22 - Gleaming Darkness - if a S value value is reduced to 0, the character is counted as slain. All attacks could also mean Shooting attacks - currently, this means that if a character charges an enemy unit with S3, rolls a 3 on the D3, he automatically kills those capable of attacking him, and in the following turn, if he's charged by S3, they automatically die if they can attack him as well.
- Not really, they don't get S0 as a stat, only the strength of the attack is lowered by that much. Clarified it to close combat only.
23 - Tarnished Scales - 35 points is too much, IMHO. The Bronze Shield is 25, and can be combined with other equipment, including the HW and Shield for Parry. I'd say 30, or 25, unless there's a combination I've not spotted which is why this is the case?
- Empire pay 40 pts for it though, without the HA. But yeah, it essentially gives you another Wound, which is worth about 25 pts. Lowered it 30 pts.
24 - Ice Dragon Hide - so the character could potentially be Mounted on Barded Warhorse, 5+ Scaly Skin, Heavy Armour, Shield, for a total of +0 Armour?
- Yes, the same as lizardmen can have.
25 - Storm Armour - whoa that's good - place that in a Dragon monk unit and it's immune to normal missiles nearly.
- They still die to magic missiles and templates as normal. HE pay 30 pts for it.
26 - Token of Celestial Favour - maybe make it "General Only"? If the Character is favoured by the Gods, on whom the Emperor is the Chosen Son of, then surely he'll be in charge? If you're doing the Emperor as a Character - give him this Magic Item.
The Emperor already have Ld10, so no effect there. But 65 pts seems quite expensive for it really, elves definitely doesn't pay 65 pts for their Ld10 over Ld9.
27 - Phoenix Robe - Does this trigger against Multiple wounds bringing you down to 1 wound? i.e cannonball at full wounds, roll a 6 to cause wounds against 3 wound character, does this cause two wounds, then 4 3+ Wards?
- Fixed.
27 - Iron Wand - Waayyy OP'd. Skull of Katam is a +1 to all within 3", and Lizards have to buy an engine of the gods to benefit from the -1 to cast. Although it doesn't directly effect you, this is enough to shut down an entire opponents magic phase if you max your Wu Jen.
- You are forcing you're opponent to use more dice, not cancelling him out. His spells will have higher PL, and he will have fewer spells. I raised it to 35 pts though.
28 - Although favouring larger armies, 3K+, Brush of 1000 Years, and Token of the Celestial Favour is quite a powerful combination.
- It do requires you to have two lords though, so I don't think it would be too OP.
29 - Flashwork Globes are a bit convoluted - just say that if the character is charge, may pass a BS test, if so, target is reduced to WS and I1 (note that the I rule has no effect currently). Personally, I'd simplify it, and make it worth the 40points, by simply stating that any models (including mounts) who are capable of attacking a unit containing a character with Flashwork Globes must pass an Initiative, or reduce their WS to 1, and count as attacking a defended obstacle, and lose the benefits of ASF.
- You might have an outdated version. It does this now: "The Flashwork Globes may be used whenever the character or the unit he is with chooses Hold or Stand and Shoot as a charge reaction. Roll a D6; on a 2+, the enemy unit is blinded and fights with Weapon Skill 1 in the first round of combat."
30 - Amulet of the Imperial Champion - combined with Spear of Tao'la, if it hits like a ballista, that's a S10, Phoenix Talon has 6 S7 Attacks with -6 to Armour Saves, Obsidian Dagger is 5 S7 Attacks with -4 To Armour Saves and Ignoring Ward Saves, Starfire Longsword is 4 Reroll 1s to hit, Autowounding nearly attacks. Only benefit is that it doesn't work in Dragon Skirmishers.
- Not a problem any more.
31 - Pi-Pa - unsure of those capabilities, to be perfectly honest. Seems quite a powerful option. I wouldn't make it affect ItP units, or if it was designed with that in mind, then Forest Spirits at least.
- Forests spirits do sleep though? Deamons and undead are unbreakablem while FS are only ItP.
32 - Twilight Robe - the -1 to hit, does that apply to Close Combat Attacks? Clarification needed.
Fixed.
33 - Dragonmist banner is excellent, but for it's cost, maybe not so much. I'd be willing to extend that to all Psych tests caused by the unit as well.
- Lowered it to 50 pts, forgot to do that when I lowered the range of the effect.
34 - Sky Banner - excellent idea. I'm sure there are going to be some massively cheesy combinations combining this with something.
- So I have heard. Haven't gotten any responses to how to fix it though.
35 - Standard of the Orchid - when you say Magic Items are unaffected, what about those which grant special rules - i.e folariaths robe, granting Ethereal. Also, the Blessing of the Lady for Bretonnians, if they "lose" this special rule, have they lost it's effects for good, or only while in contact? What happens if while they are not under it's effects, they don't fulfil it's requirements? Same for Eye of the Gods? If a character loses Eye of the Gods while under this banner, does he lose the benefits associated with it? it's also a great "Fuck you" to daemons as well - no ward save, no magic attacks, no ItP etc. They do lose Instability though.
- It does this now: "As long as they are in base contact with the unit carrying this banner, enemy models lose any rules from the Special Rules section of the Warhammer rulebook they might have."
36 - Banner of the Crashing Tide - be careful about this rule - I run a Phalanx Wood Elf Army (unit of 70+ Eternal Guard), and these have 10 models in the front rank, and 7 ranks - If I did this with the Imperial Guard/Swordsaints, I'd have 10 S6/7 Impact hits. Although it's expensive, with combinations such as Sky Banner/Ghost Orchid, it's VERY nasty.
- I don't think we will see that many people using units of 70 models though, now will we? That's almost 1000 pts of swordsaints
37 - Honour Standard - why not Immune to Psychology?
- Cause it would make it more expensive
Again, thanks for the feedback, I'll post an update with these changes soon.
That statement right there is a clear indication that they are off, balance wise
