Dogs of War

I originally posted this article in 2007 as "Soldier of Heaven" on now-inactive The Merchant Prince. As our rules haven't changed, the article hasn't changed...
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Introductory Thoughts

One thing I've been pondering is how a Dogs of War Army ought to be conceived. A Dogs of War Army has access to a very broad variety of troop types, but these troops tend to be relatively elite and/or narrowly-specialized. Dogs of War can be supplemented by a fairly wide variety of basic units of different races (i.e. Ogres, Halflings, Norse, Dwarves, Giants), along with a limited number of exotic and unique units (i.e. Asarnil the Dragonlord, Cursed Company, Skink cavalry). No matter what you want to do, you can probably do it with a unit of Dogs of War.

The downside is that Dogs of War tend to be relatively fragile. They are required to take a Paymaster who causes Panic tests if he dies. Characters are pure vanilla. The vast majority of units are built around S3 T3 models, often Ld.7 Men. Magical Armour is not available, just the single basic Enchanted Shield. Magical Wards are similarly rare, just the single basic 6+ Ward Save.

The Dogs of War army is flexible, but fragile.


The Dogs of War Paymaster

Dogs of War are required to take a Paymaster, the Achilles Heel of the army. While a fairly decent fighter in his own right, the Paymaster cannot be risked in combat, lest he die and the entire army suffer Panic as a result. Worse, he consumes a Hero slot that could better be used by a Wizard or fighting Hero. Indeed, much Dogs of War strategy revolves around keeping him alive with his dedicated Bodyguard, Heavy Cavalry, else massed Dwarves or Duellists. The specific strategy varies according to the rest of the army, but the objectives are all similar: give him as much armour as possible, in as large a unit as possible.

The Dogs of War Paymaster is the Achilles Heel.


Dogs of War Characters

Dogs of War have the basic complement of Characters - Lord and Wizard Lord, Captain and Wizard. There is nothing special about them, particularly as most Regiments of Renown provide at least a Captain of some sort. Depending on how the rest of the army is configured, the Ld.9 Lord can be a good choice. Magical defense is always necessary, and being down by a Hero slot doesn't help, so at a minimum, Dogs of War should take a couple scroll caddies. It is possible to go "heavy" Magic (Wizard Lord with Scrolls, Scroll Caddy, Dark Emissary), however, this approach is frowned upon by some opponents. The other use of Dogs of War Characters is to gain access to Flying with a Pegasus mount, however these Flyers compete directly with the limited defensive Magic.

Dogs of War Characters provide Magical defense and Flying.


Dogs of War Core

While most Dogs of War units are combat-oriented, rather than shooting-oriented, Dogs of War do not have "efficient" Core block infantry to provide inexpensive static CR based on Ranks and Standards. At 10+ pts per model, Pikemen are an expensive source of block infantry with very specialized rules and requirements, but they are still just Men. At 8 pts, Crossbows are an efficient way to provide S4 30" support fire, but you cannot win a game with them, because they would be crushed in close combat. Dogs of War have excellent support-oriented Core units (i.e. Skirmishers, Light and Heavy Cavalry), but the basic Dogs of War Core infantry are still just Men who are not particularly well-suited to block combat. With the RoR specialist versions of all of these remaining as Core, there is much tailoring that can be done to support a specific army style.

Dogs of War Core provide support, not bricks.


Dogs of War Specials

Dogs of War Specials are where the real action lies, as most of the relatively interesting things here. Specifically, Dogs of War can take efficiently tailorable block infantry with good Ld scores. Dwarves in Heavy Armour and Shield have a tremendous T4 Sv3+ in close combat, for a solid anchor block. Halflings provide inexpensive mobile fire support. Frenzied Norse with Great Weapons have great fighting utility. The various Ogres provide combat density and varied options as valuable shock troops. Any of these are great choices to build an army around, and complement each other very well.

Dogs of War Specials provide powerful bricks.


Dogs of War Rares

Dogs of War Rares are where the remaining capabilities reside. Dogs of War have access to (light) Cannon and Stone Throwers as Rares, but no Bolt Throwers. Dogs of War can also take Giants and other Monsters as Rares. As the Dogs of War War Machines are fairly unimpressive, it is probably better to use the Rare slot(s) to provided concentrated fighting power.

Dogs of War Rares provide Monsters, not Artillery.


Dogs of War Shooting

Unlike Empire, Dogs of War shooting capability is quite limited. For massed shooting, Dogs of War have few choices: Pistol Duellists and Crossbows. As noted above Crossbows are fairly good, despite being move-or-fire. Pistol Duellists are rather slow-moving and have woeful range, but good use as a stand-and-shoot screen. Dogs of War Artillery is specialist usage only. Due to the inherent weaknesses in Dogs of War Shooting, you cannot build an army around this concept and expect it to be very effective.

Dogs of War Shooting is Tactical, not Strategic.


Dogs of War Quality

Unlike many armies, Dogs of War are not a horde army. Their cheapest models (Duellists and Manbiters) start at 5 pts each. Pikemen are 10 pts, while Dwaves and Norse run 8 to 10 pts each. Dogs of War models are considerably more expensive than their Empire counterparts, so they cannot swamp the board in the same way that Empire does. Dogs of War are almost Elf-like in their cost structure.

Dogs of War is Quality over Quantity.


Dogs of War Regiments of Renown

Dogs of War have the broadest access to Regiments of Renown, allowing for many specialists but not in quantity, as each RoR is unique. Dogs of War have very broad access to Captains at the cost of having to take Full Command where it is often unnecessary or even undesirable. Unusually, Dogs of War have access to a handful of (near-) Lord-level characters that do not require a Lord slot (i.e. Asarnil, Beorg, Dark Emissary / Truthsayer). Dogs of War also have access to some very high-cost, very unique units (e.g. Manflayers, Cursed Company, Giants of Albion). It is possible to build an army around enhanced Regiments of Renown, but this further exacerbates issues with having sufficient model count to be effective.

Dogs of War Regiments of Renown bring Quality vs Quantity to the fore.


Dogs of War Starter Army

Given the above, a starter army could be composed as follows:

Wizard Lord (Heavens)
Paymaster
Wizard (Fire)
Flying Hero

10 Crossbows
8 Duellists with Pistols
5 Heavy Cavalry
5 Light Cavalry

20 Norse w/ Great Weapons
20 Dwarves w/ HA&S
4 Ogre Ironguts
2 Ogre Maneaters

1 Dogs of War Giant

This is approximately 2000 pts, including a few choice upgrades such as bumping a Wizard to a Lord, adding an extra rank to the Norse or Dwarves, or upgrading a unit to a RoR.


Dogs of War Upgraded Army

Building on the sample army above, the Dogs of War Army could be upgraded:

Wizard Lord (Beasts)
Paymaster
Dark Emissary
Asarnil the Dragonlord

5 Light Cavalry
5 Light Cavalry
8 Duellists with Pistols
10 Crossbows

20 Beorg's Bearmen
20 Norse w/ Great Weapons & Shields
10 Halflings w/ Bows

This is also approximately 2000 pts, but with far far more elite: both Wizards upgrade to lv.4s; the Pegasus upgrades to a Dragon; the Dwarves become Norse led by a Lord-level fighter!

Alternative upgrades would have been to upgrade the Cavalry to Venators and/or Desert Dogs, or perhaps to upgrade to Giants of Albion.

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Dogs of War is supposed to be a army of Balance. Balance of Missile fire, Massed Pikes and Hard hitting elites (Ogres/Heavy Cav). So I do agree with the flexible but fragile, they are mainly human afterall.

Yes the paymaster is a weakness but he acts like a BSB without paying for the Hero with a banner. I never liked that he is mandatory but since he is than he should be free hero choice like the Bretonnians mandatory BSB.

the Dogs have access to one of the most vicious war machines called the Goblin Hewer, yes it takes a Hero/Rare spot but the ability to kill massed ranks of units cannot be dismissed.

(06-28-2009 08:40 AM)BilboBaggins Wrote: [ -> ]Yes the paymaster is a weakness but he acts like a BSB without paying for the Hero with a banner.

You do pay for his banner, a normal captain costs 50pts and 75pts if upgraded to a BSB. The paymaster who is a considerably worse fighter costs 55pts. So if you wouldn't pay for his banner, why is a worse character more expensive?

As for the article, most of it is good, but I disagree on some points regarding taking monsters over artillery and the Dogs not being able to field a horde army. The artillery is far more useful than the giant who dies all the time to shooting imo, while the artillery shoots down your enemies hardhitters and monsters. For the horde part, the Dogs of War can easily field as many troops as the Empire. The army I play contain about 130 models, same as my Empire army. It evens out with the Empire special choices that are most often taken. But in comparison with say, Skaven, they are hardly horde, no.

I would like to see more non-pike/non-skirmishing infinty units as core.

I've heard of 200+ model Empire Army and even a 240 model Bretonnian army. According to an article I read in White Dwarf a few years ago to really have a true horde army you really need to hit the 300 model mark (Goblins/Skaven). My Normal Empire army was over 100 models, my beloved Chaos Dwarfs is in the 150-160 range and my slayers top out in the High 60's at 2K.

(06-28-2009 08:40 AM)BilboBaggins Wrote: [ -> ]Dogs of War is supposed to be a army of Balance. Balance of Missile fire, Massed Pikes and Hard hitting elites (Ogres/Heavy Cav).

Yes the paymaster is a weakness but he acts like a BSB ... since he is than he should be free hero choice like the Bretonnians mandatory BSB.

the Dogs have access to one of the most vicious war machines called the Goblin Hewer,

From my POV, Dogs of War are NOT an army of Balance, and haven't been such in ages. They've always been an Elite Human army. Crossbows aren't bad, but Pikes are horrible for the points. The Elites are good, though, and that's where the punch is.

The Paymaster is a disaster, and his weakness is why you can't use him like a regular BSB, or even a regular Hero. You pay more than a 50 pts, so you're paying extra. I agree if he were yet another free Captain in the army, he'd be fine.

The Goblin Hewer is a good weapon, but I think the Hero & Rare slots are needed more for Dispel & Terror than anything else.

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(06-28-2009 09:23 AM)M4cR1II3n Wrote: [ -> ]As for the article, most of it is good, but I disagree on some points regarding taking monsters over artillery and the Dogs not being able to field a horde army.

The artillery is far more useful than the giant who dies all the time to shooting imo, while the artillery shoots down your enemies hardhitters and monsters.

For the horde part, the Dogs of War can easily field as many troops as the Empire.

Good comments!

Personally, I like Asarnil best, because he's a Flyer - he can get somewhere to do something. Otherwise, I'd take Giants of Albion. 1 Giant simply won't cut it, I agree. But then, Artillery-wise, neither would 1 light Cannon. If you're comparing 1 O&G Giant to a Goblin Hewer, of course the Hewer wins. But Dogs of War Artillery is still poor. Personally, I'd rather 2-for-1 with Magic taking the Artillery role, as you need them for Dispel anyways.

With respect to the horde bit, there is no way Dogs of War can field as many troops as Empire. And certainly not as effective blocks. Empire Swords are far cheaper, and more effective due to the detachment rule. Play a TVI-style horde-on-horde battle, and the Empire easily wins. Dogs of War models are just way too expensive to attempt horde.

Asarnil is a great use of Rare choices, no doubt about it. Otherwise I think the cannon and hot pot, even though they are a lot worse than the Empire's war machines, are more useful for rare choices.

If it all comes down to who CAN field the most models, yes, then Empire will win (unless you go vanilla duellists only), but most balanced Empire armies have about 130 models, and I have no problems getting to that many models with Dogs of War. That said, Empire has it easier to get more models than Dogs of War, but that's not saying it is impossible.

All Duelists would be really funny and take a huge hit on the Comp score.

More or less good points for the most part.

I don't think you really upgrade to Giants of Albion, more like, downgrade to them. At least until the book is out

Maybe he likes the Giants of Albion and he has good luck with them. Sort of like me and Lumpin Croops.

For the slots, Giants of Albion aren't bad. Not as good as Asarnil, Truthsayer, or Emissary, but they're easily better than a couple weak cannons or a solo O&G Giant. You get a couple Giants who auto-win combat more often than the O&G Giant, along with a Dispel Die and a Bear's Anger (or better). You could use the big guys to cover Beorg's flanks / strip ranks and have Hengus boost Beorg in combat for one nasty brick.

Sounds like a plan, but the look of the models one stiff breeze could knock them over.

How are Dogs of War Cannons weak. 48 inch range, S10, No Armor Save, and D3 wounds is nothing to sneeze at. Dwarf cannons are the same unless you get an engineer then you get D6 wounds.

Empire Great Cannons have an additional 12 in range and D6 wounds.

(06-28-2009 04:40 PM)BilboBaggins Wrote: [ -> ]All Duelists would be really funny and take a huge hit on the Comp score.

So much for my Musketeers army or Pirates.

Maybe somebody would make a serious Pirate army list with great ideas for units.

Nah, never happen.

Personally I think Dogs of War have and optimum build that includes a lvl4 on a peg with dispel scrolls, Asarnil, Paymaster, 2x fast cav, 2x duellists, 2x 4 maneaters with brace of pistols, Pirate slayers, goblin hewer and the rest is just fillers. Pike are duds, crossbows are to easily avoided or silenced, canon are unreliable and will always misfire when needed most, giants just go down to easily to missile fire, especially xbows or handguns, frenzied troops are to easily diverted and most ogres bar maneaters are to unreliable. RoR's are far to expensive for the most part and the paymaster can die and ruin your game very easily.
The above list gives good magic offensively and defensively, has a flying terror causer that despite being flown by the easiet elf in warhammer to kill, actually is the most likely to stay if he is (Ld8 and +1 to reaction chart if you fail your ld test). Once the rider is gone the dragon can't be challenged out on the charge! The 2 fast cav act purely as table quarter grabbers in the last turn, or in dire straights assassinate warmachines or wizards, or to divert troops like frenzied infantry and the like. The duellists are purely screener for the maneaters who can smash almost any unit in the game. The Maneaters and the slayers all ignore the paymaster should he die. The dwarf slayers are awesome in hth for pinning opponents and their pistols are great. The Goblin hewer is amazing against ranked troops and cavalry stupid enough to give you a flank shot. It can even smash up fast cav units head on doing D3 hits and gets a stand and shoot from the heroes repeater handgun.

(06-28-2009 08:43 PM)BilboBaggins Wrote: [ -> ]Sounds like a plan, but the look of the models one stiff breeze could knock them over.

How are Dogs of War Cannons weak. 48 inch range, and D3 wounds

Empire Great Cannons have an additional 12 in range and D6 wounds.

You know, you don't have to use the official models, right? You can always convert something if you don't like the look.

Dogs of War Cannon are only 48" range with d3 wounds. 48" range is harder to set them up for optimal enfilade shots down the face of the battleline, and D3 wounds means that they will never drop enemy monsters, and often not even snipe W2 characters.
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(06-29-2009 10:05 AM)Horus the Warmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Personally I think Dogs of War have and optimum build that includes:

a lvl4 on a peg with dispel scrolls,
Asarnil,
Paymaster,
2x fast cav,
2x duellists,
2x 4 maneaters with brace of pistols,
Pirate slayers,
goblin hewer
and the rest is just fillers.

Pike are duds, crossbows are to easily avoided or silenced, canon are unreliable and will always misfire when needed most, giants just go down to easily to missile fire, especially xbows or handguns, frenzied troops are to easily diverted and most ogres bar maneaters are to unreliable. RoR's are far to expensive for the most part and the paymaster can die and ruin your game very easily.

That's actually quiet a good list. Overall design is fighty with some shooting, playing to Dogs of War strengths, such as they are.

I'm pretty sure that Paymaster / Lv.4 / Asarnil is pretty much a given start for any Dogs of War build. The last slot varies between Truthsayer / Dark Emissary / Hewer.

You're taking good core support in Fast Cav and Duellists, and I'm assuming that they're Pistol Duellists like everyone takes. Good call on the no Pikes - I agree they're far too grossly overpriced to take in any quantity. Crossbows are arguable, and are probably fair filler, but point-for-point, you're better with Heavy Cav as extra filler.

Double blocks of Maneaters with Slayers are of course, excellent. Norse aren't bad as the only cost-effective block infantry, but Frenzy does have a downside.

Hewer is your upgrade to the weak Cannon and Crossbows - I approve! Giants aren't so bad, but you can't take one.

RoRs aren't bad when you can use the Hero for fighting: Beorg, Voland, and Ricco all come to mind as acceptable. The rest are horrible.

(06-28-2009 08:43 PM)BilboBaggins Wrote: [ -> ]Sounds like a plan, but the look of the models one stiff breeze could knock them over.

How are Dogs of War Cannons weak. 48 inch range, and D3 wounds

Empire Great Cannons have an additional 12 in range and D6 wounds.

(06-29-2009 11:59 AM)JohnHwangDW Wrote: [ -> ]You know, you don't have to use the official models, right? You can always convert something if you don't like the look.

Dogs of War Cannon are only 48" range with d3 wounds. 48" range is harder to set them up for optimal enfilade shots down the face of the battleline, and D3 wounds means that they will never drop enemy monsters, and often not even snipe W2 characters.

If, like me, you play mainly in GW you better be using their models or ones you sculpted yourself.

Tell me, how many people have characters outside of units, that are not etheral that is? They have a 1 in 6 shot of failing "Look out sir", then you have a 1 in 6 shot of not even wounding and probably a 50/50 (4+) or 1/3 shot (5+) of them failing the ward save. Then you have a 66% chance of getting 2 or more wounds. I know I've rolled 1's on the D6 wound Empire Great Cannon enough times, but getting the 6 on the wounds on the Dragon Ogre was great for me.

The ability to take out multi ranks of unts and even the possiblity of wounds to multi units is a benefit. S10 Chariot Killing is just a bonus.

(06-29-2009 10:05 AM)Horus the Warmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Personally I think Dogs of War have and optimum build that includes a lvl4 on a peg with dispel scrolls, Asarnil, Paymaster, 2x fast cav, 2x duellists, 2x 4 maneaters with brace of pistols, Pirate slayers, goblin hewer and the rest is just fillers. Pike are duds, crossbows are to easily avoided or silenced, canon are unreliable and will always misfire when needed most, giants just go down to easily to missile fire, especially xbows or handguns, frenzied troops are to easily diverted and most ogres bar maneaters are to unreliable. RoR's are far to expensive for the most part and the paymaster can die and ruin your game very easily.
The above list gives good magic offensively and defensively, has a flying terror causer that despite being flown by the easiet elf in warhammer to kill, actually is the most likely to stay if he is (Ld8 and +1 to reaction chart if you fail your ld test). Once the rider is gone the dragon can't be challenged out on the charge! The 2 fast cav act purely as table quarter grabbers in the last turn, or in dire straights assassinate warmachines or wizards, or to divert troops like frenzied infantry and the like. The duellists are purely screener for the maneaters who can smash almost any unit in the game. The Maneaters and the slayers all ignore the paymaster should he die. The dwarf slayers are awesome in hth for pinning opponents and their pistols are great. The Goblin hewer is amazing against ranked troops and cavalry stupid enough to give you a flank shot. It can even smash up fast cav units head on doing D3 hits and gets a stand and shoot from the heroes repeater handgun.

Wow, it's Horus! Welcome!

(06-29-2009 12:43 PM)BilboBaggins Wrote: [ -> ]If, like me, you play mainly in GW you better be using their models or ones you sculpted yourself.

Tell me, how many people have characters outside of units,

I know I've rolled 1's on the D6 wound Empire Great Cannon enough times, but getting the 6 on the wounds on the Dragon Ogre was great for me.

The ability to take out multi ranks of unts and even the possiblity of wounds to multi units is a benefit. S10 Chariot Killing is just a bonus.

I hardly ever play in GW stores, but my Giants and such are usually converted from GW models.

Granted there aren't so many character solos, but it's still good to be able to drop them when they pop out.

Same with counterbattery fire against enemy WM and dropping Monsters - the Empire can do this way better than Dogs of War cannon.

The Empire should be able to. The Dogs of War have to buy the older equipment while the Empire and Dwarfs supply themselves with the best stuff.

Are Pirazzo and his Lost Legion a good combination, combining crossbowmen and pikemen?

Dogs of War Shooting

Unlike Empire, Dogs of War shooting capability is quite limited. For massed shooting, Dogs of War have few choices: Pistol Duellists and Crossbows. As noted above Crossbows are fairly good, despite being move-or-fire. Pistol Duellists are rather slow-moving and have woeful range, but good use as a stand-and-shoot screen. Dogs of War Artillery is specialist usage only. Due to the inherent weaknesses in Dogs of War Shooting, you cannot build an army around this concept and expect it to be very effective.

Dogs of War Shooting is Tactical, not Strategic.


I gues then that the build that I normally go with is totally wrong..... oh that right I win with it.

This is what I start with:
Level 4 wiz
2 Level 2 Wiz 1 scroll each
Paymaster
2 units of 8 Duellists with Pistols
12 Marksmen
14 Lumpin Croops
10 Mengals Manflayers
7 Volands (paymaster goes with them)

the rest I vary depending on how feel that day.
Usually
5 Golgfags
3 leadbelchers

sometimes dwarves with every option , h.armour,shield,g weap., x-bows.
(surprises the crap out of people when they charge and pull out G. weapons)

With it I came in 5th at Maurauders (tourney in Ohio with 40+ people)
I plan on winning a local tournament here in the next few weeks with them
I will be playing them at Buckeye battles in June with this basic list -- about 100 people will be playing.

I think the cannons are being underestimated. One single cannon has often been a game changer for me - sniping a High Elf Mage from the back of a dragon in Turn 1, taking out half of a unit of Knights of the Realm setting up to charge my crossbows, obliterating a Lion Chariot 40" from my lines, taking care of missile units holed up in buildings, etc.

No, it's not as nice as the big guns. But if positioned properly and with a decent eye for range, it can be really effective.

From the OP: don't take the article too seriously. It's not intended to be the be-all, end-all of Dogs of War analysis. It's intended as a quick summary.

(04-14-2010 04:56 AM)miklamar Wrote: [ -> ]Are Pirazzo and his Lost Legion a good combination, combining crossbowmen and pikemen?

I have never taken them, and probably wouldn't. It's an expensive RoR, and the move-or-shoot Xbows destroy mobility.
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(04-14-2010 12:08 PM)tarastop Wrote: [ -> ]Dogs of War Shooting is Tactical, not Strategic.

I gues then that the build that I normally go with is totally wrong..... oh that right I win with it.

If it works for you, fine. Go write your own article, rather than picking at mine. The main point of that section is that you can't build Dogs of War as a gunline and expect to succeed. Also, with your Wizards and other good units, perhaps they're covering for your bad choices?
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(04-14-2010 12:26 PM)Gwyddyon Wrote: [ -> ]I think the cannons are being underestimated. One single cannon has often been a game changer for me -

I've fielded a lot of Dogs of War Cannon, and they're not reliably good compared to always-on Terror and so forth. Yes, you'll get occasional good results, and you'll also get a fair number of bad results.

I have been running successful shooting army in recent times.

1.Cheap crossbowmen are the backbone of my army.
2. Pistol Dualists are magic hiding in forests, ruins and difficult tarrain.
3. We get light cavelty with bows for cheap.
4. Nothing takes a big bite ot of an infanty block like the Hewer.
5. Don't forget maneaters with brace of handguns.
6. The hot pot is not too shabby for only 50 pts.
7. Although Asarnil is a big monster, I use him to shoot rather than fight.

I think shooting is the way to go with Dogs of War.

Interesting build!