Anybody use a Giant? Success? Failure? I've been contemplating getting one up and putting it in the list. Not sure of a specific place for it. I guess at 205 points I could just use him to add on to my 2k list to get up to 2250.
Let's hear some stories of great Giant use with the Dogs of War. What units does he work in conjunction well with?
The GIANT! works pretty well if you're not facing too much magic or shooting, otherwise he'll die pretty quickly. SInce I face either one of those things pretty much every time I usually put him on the flank, he can easily hold it by himself and prevents enemy flankers from attacking your main line. Note: GIANTS! are not to be moved into woods voluntarily. They don't do much good (or even bad!) there.
I have always really wanted to include a giant, as the damage they can wreak on a Steam Tank, Doom Wheel, or just about any other giant monster is spectacular, whereas my normal force struggles against them. The downside, of course, is that those other creatures can cause equal or greater damage to it, and tend to be supported by armies who can easily deal with the giant alone.
Overall, I gotta say, with things like the Doomwheel, Hellpit A-bomb, and Hydra running around, the good old giant is looking alot like everything else based in the Orcs and Goblins codex.
(12-26-2009 05:34 PM)Shane Wrote: [ -> ]Overall, I gotta say, with things like the Doomwheel, Hellpit A-bomb, and Hydra running around, the good old giant is looking alot like everything else based in the Orcs and Goblins codex.
Crappy, unreliable and overpriced?
I think he fills a good role in the Dogs of War. He's stubborn, ld 10 & immune to psych (basically) - none of which is in long supply. Is he a bullet magnet? Sure. Is he reliable? Nope. But is he effective? Sometimes - hell, occasionally, he's a game breaker. And maybe sometimes with occasional game changing glory is good enough for our somewhat substandard list.
That being said, I generally run a cannon and the goblin hewer in my rare slots.
The Giant is not worth it's point, some maneater or knights can do the job better, BUT: It's so fluffy and funny and your enemy will pay him (too) much attention, so that your other dogs can do the job...and if the giant hits the enemy lines, it will be very funny (for you)!
(12-26-2009 05:36 PM)M4cR1II3n Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2009 05:34 PM)Shane Wrote: [ -> ]Overall, I gotta say, with things like the Doomwheel, Hellpit A-bomb, and Hydra running around, the good old giant is looking alot like everything else based in the Orcs and Goblins codex.
Crappy, unreliable and overpriced?
Exactly. And while the giant *can* be a gamebreaker if he gets in there, so will a Hellpit A-bomb, or even a doom wheel. Hell, A hydra never has to fight (it's main purpose) to be incredibly effective (march + breath weapon). Any one of these will draw equal if not more fire than a giant, and ALL of them require more firepower to put down.
I realise that we are talking about the Dogs of War, and that paying more for less effect is par for the course, but that's because we have a half decade old annual list that is around 5 pages long. The fact it is actually part of a current army book, namely the O&G, shows just how wild the power scaling is in this edition.
If everyone was at the level of the Orcs and Goblins/empire/dwarves, then yeah, it would be good. As it is, I just can't convince myself to take an even GREATER handicap than I already am by playing this army.
He's a big, impressive model that causes Terror. I'd take a Giant as a 2nd Terror-causer, against low-Ld armies.
(12-27-2009 01:44 PM)JohnHwangDW Wrote: [ -> ]He's a big, impressive model that causes Terror. I'd take a Giant as a 2nd Terror-causer, against low-Ld armies.
And against those armies he will be very impressive, as they tend to lack the effectiveness to deal with him, but honestly, what armies in the game are low leadership and vulnerable (at least 50% of the time) to a giants terror?
Assuming that they are fielding an all comers list, the High Elves are going to have at least one major unit that is immune to either fear/terror or psych, as well as probably a second fear causer (chariot or Phoenix guard) and often a dragon, on top of a leadership 8+ army. Dark Elves are basically in the same boat, as are Wood Elves (the only things that would actually fight him are immune to psychology).
Dwarves are a base Ld9 force, who, once again, are going to come rigged up anti-fear if they are going to have a chance in all comers.
Empire 'Knights of the Holy Cannonball' are base Ld8, plus small, cheap units, so no real loss there.
All of the above forces have an easy time dealing with the giant.
That leaves what? Skaven? Base Ld 9/10, potentially more unbreakable units than anyone in the game and absolutely no trouble demolishing a giant. Lizardmen? Basically the same as above.
So you are left with Bretonians, and Orcs and Goblins. Bretonians have an amazing monster killer lord/hero, and a immune to psych knights (either Errant or grail), but are actually fairly vulnerable to it, despite 30 man skirmishing archers and trench-buckets. Orcs and Goblins WILL suffer against it, though they do have the warmachines to put some serious hurt into it fairly easily.
Then you have Vampires, Demons, and Tomb Kings, where the Terror is not a factor.
Mortals of Chaos are a base Ld8 army, and as with everything else, they suffer from an extremely limited list and are vulnerable to it. (I am leaving beats out until they get there new book)
Taking it for it's terror can be helpful, but not many forces are actually concerned about that part of it at all.
Don't get me wrong, a Dogs of War cannon is not great, and anything with a misfire is not reliable, but I would personally rather have an 85 pt cannon and 120 more points of units than a giant, who is pretty much the bottom of the totem pole as far as monsters go. That being said, I would love to get one and green stuff it up to look like it was wearing a giant version of the uniform of my Paymasters Guard, 'cause that would be awesome.
I think that while terror is not as effective as you'd hope, even high ld armies fail sometimes (it's just not something to count on), but the benefit is that you do not have to test for either fear or terror yourself. Given the vulnernability of Dogs of War to psychology this can be invaluable.
While the giant can be unreliable in combat with his random attacks, the threat potential means that your opponent cannot ignore it. If he'd dedicating sufficient firepower/magic to the giant to reliably kill it then the rest of our army should be able to sneak up and prepare to smack his troops.
I get the distraction concepts, but in a lord level game, that giant, by itself, represents a tenth of your overall forces. I am sure you can brag it up and get an opponent to use his entire army to destroy it, and give yourself a turn of preparation and manuevering, but in my experience of having played against one and having watched many other people do the same, it takes significantly less than that. Most often, when it is going to become a problem, I have seen it just easily swept aside. Maybe that is just the group I play with and the armies they tend to run, though.
Depends on the opponent - S3 shooting is going to need 36 hits to kill him in one turn, and S4 shooting/magic missiles will need 18 hits.
The giant is by no means a "no-brainer", but offers something to our arsenal that can augment the rest of the army - and as an option with a decent model why not use it?
Oh, it can be a no brainer. A charge of real knights, a good monster, and as you said, two or three units of wothwhile ranged troopers, let alone anything used together, a worthwhile warmachine, or another armies giant counterpart. The main thing is, when push comes to shove, it can be a distraction, but it is one you pay for. It's not bad, but it's not great.
Every so often, in a large game, I will field 3 giants and Asarnil. The giants tend to die quickly, but having four terror causing units spread out across the table all causing terror at the same time can cause real terror in you opponent.