Hello to all! you excuse me for my terrible English …
I want announce one small Victoria our mercenary!
I have noticed that you been planning a new one army book for the mercenary, we in Italy use the rules of our plan that calls tilea.net (the rules can be find to them
TILEA.NET). we have give hour our rules to cavatore,who liked him very much. But Mauro Canavese, a large piece of the gw Italian has asked to the directors of the gw for put the mercenary in the tournament of 2010 and seems that these have accepted!
If you want my idea is useless to make two army book, but it would be better to collaborate!
hello
Fabrizio
I have seen these rules before and they are quite good, although there are a few minor hiccups with the points costs and I still don't like the way they implemented the Birdmen which are our most useless unit. This lists puts them on 25mm bases, and I get the feeling that the writers have never handled the models. No way they'd stay up on these small bases. They should have put them on proper 40mm bases and given them a set of 2 hand weapons to make up for the "attack loss" while ranking up (also, they had two hand weapons in the 5th edition book and Dadallo wasn't a wimp either). That way they could engage a warmachine crew, which is risky at best still with the Tilea.net rules. Also I think the Birdies shouldn't be a Rare choice, they're not that good and will generally lose out to fast cavalry (Core) and cannon (Rare).
edit: and the guys need somebody who's a bit more proficient in English to write the rules up for the international community. They've made a good effort, but the English is lacking a lot which makes it look too unprofessional, which is a bit sad. Especially since the Italian Dogs of War community has given us some quite workable stuff before, like the magic items they published at some points (Brace of Sartosean pistols etc.)
The hawks have been designed to be usable. Let me explain, as they are willing now can work very well in order not to march the troops and capture the war machines. Regarding the points there is a section of the site, where you can clearly see how we counted the points of troops. For magic items, revenue at stake you! are few because we want help from all players mercenaries to put in new ones and improve them. As for the English we could use a hand!
If you need an English speaker, (who has been published in White Dwarf) to go over things, then I'd be willing to spend some time going over things for you...
thank you very much! yes indeed now the rules tilea.net are played a lot in Italy and we are in contact with the French ... we could use a hand!
If this becomes standard in Italy and France, I'd be willing to translate it into German and try to promote the rules to the German community (I am a moderator in 2 big German Warhammer forums with roughly 18.000 registered users between the two); the German tourney crowd is a bit conservative about rules, so they'd probably need some kind of precendence to give it a real look.
The problem is that I can't read Italian (Latin only goes so far...
) so I'd have to work with the English translation, so that has to be as accurate as possible so we don't get differring versions; I once did some translating for Kraken Editions, and that was pretty hard because it went French-English-German since I also don't speak enough French to create a faithful translation from the original text.
You can translate from English pdf, adjusting the terms that are incorrect. Of course I am always available for any information!
Hi Marco!
This is very nice work. Not all changes I agree, but a big step forward.
Well done!
We have used these rules in the campaign figw Italian, and the mercenaries have placed third!
Very good ,well done GW Italy for supporting you and all the work that Tilea.net have done ! I lkie it bit rough around the edges linguistically but quite inventive and original . You never know it may make it in to a WD as an unofficial list in the near future .
If GW published something like that in WD as an update, I would be quite happy about it.
Likes
+ restored Magic Items, Wonders, & Reputations
+ cost corrections
+ consolidation of characters
+ non-Human Characters
+ Tilean / Mercenary army lists
Dislikes
- English name changes (is this just Italian translated naming, or intentional?)
- For Hire of basic Dogs of War not well-stated
- 1 Paymaster (only require for non-Dogs of War armies hiring)
- 1+ Pike requirement in army lists
- limited Psychology defense
Quote:1 Paymaster (only require for non-Dogs of War armies hiring)
I dislike that, too. If I understood that correctly, the dude is still mandatory and does still eat a hero slot, unlike the mandatory Bretonnian BSB, who gets a bonus slot. Also, the Panic tests after the Paymaster has died should be dropped. It is a holdover from 5th edition, when all armies had to test for their General's death, and Dogs of War tested on the Paymaster's death. I don't get why the Dogs of War should be the only army left in the game with a penalty like that.
Well-put Bloodknight.
The Paymaster should not take a Hero slot in a Dogs of War army, nor generate army-wide Panic if he dies. Unless something changes radically in the way that Dogs of War Ld & Psych are handled, there is no need to "balance" Dogs of War this way.
That is, if *ALL* Dogs of War units were ItP *and* Unbreakable while the Paymaster were on the board, then the Paymaster is worth a Hero Slot and the army should test for Panic on his death. Huge upside balances with a small penalty, as opposed to current situation of no bonus and small penalty.
Otherwise, these are things that just keep the Dogs of War weak and uncompetitive.
I agree on the panic thingy, the enemy gets 100 points for wacking the dude, that's enough! The hatred in return does not match for the havoc potentially done by the panic rolls. ver 5th edition and so 1999.
On the slot thingy I disagree. Why should the paymaster not cost a hero slot? A BSB slot for free:"Because the brets have it too!" That's a really convincing reason! I like it very much
Well as a true Dogs of War player the only match I want to have with Brets is at the tip of me pike! And as a small reminder to the ones not reading our armybook: -> We can hire regiments with extra heroes, so what's the point. Let the Paymaster have his slot! We still can field more characters then any army in warhammer world, that's our big plus and the distinction of a Dogs of War armies.
my 5 cent
@Marco Colombo: I have read the list and I like it very much! thanks for sharing.
Quote:Why should the paymaster not cost a hero slot?
Because you cannot avoid taking one, and he's a wimp.
. The Bret can't be avoided either, but he gets a couple of goodies over the Paymaster (like a captain's statline, for example) and doesn't take up a slot because he is mandatory. It's like telling somebody he had to waste one of his slots on a mandatory level 1 mage that can't take scrolls and must use Lore of Life, if you know what I mean.
That said, I would still take one if he wasn't mandatory because the Dogs of War IMHO frankly need a battle standard, it just seems wrong from a design perspective.
Exactly. A Captain has the following stats:
M4 WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W2 I5 A3 Ld8
For 5 pts *more*, the mandatory Paymaster has clearly worse stats (-1WS -1BS -1I -1A):
M4 WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld8
He's completely useless.
Why not cost him the standard 75 pts, and give him slightly *better* stats (+1WS, +1A)?
M4 WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W2 I5 A4 Ld8
At least he'd be able to hold his own in a fight, rather than auto-losing to any Captain who pops his head up. Particularly as he's supposed to be man enough to deal with Mercenary Captains from across the Warhammer World.
I'd say straight Captain stats and the BSB rule (although still able to take all equipment because he's not actually carrying a banner). If he's mandatory then he shouldn't take a hero slot, you still have to pay the points for him after all. However if you read the rules you'd see that the army can take an extra hero slot so that's probably not necessary.
Only if you take a Mercenary General as your Lord. But with the mandatory Paymaster, you're then forced into taking at least a couple Scroll Caddies for defense. So this locks down 4 out of 5 Character slots for cookie-cutter building.
This WFB6 approach is actually quite a bit more restrictive than the Bret approach of making the BSB a mandatory character who doesn't take a slot.
Come order. Pikes have not restricted 1 + (although it is sad to see an army without pikemen ...). treasurer is essential and is now enhanced, we gave him magical banners that only he can bring! in addition the test of panic there must be! Think of a mercenary when he learns that he who bears the treasure dies, just think: why should I fight if I not receive pay?
Quote:Think of a mercenary when he learns that he who bears the treasure dies, just think: why should I fight if I not receive pay?
For the same reason armies normally break apart when the king/prince/general dies, yet still no other army does it.
By the way...I think you guys should be working on Alessio Cavatore so he champions the Dogs of War in the Development Studio
Anyway, I've marked and translated what you are talking about and italian community it's really glad to discuss about your point of view (mainly about Catrazza and Paymaster). Let me say about Catrazza: It's true, 25mm slota it's not really the best to manage the model (maybe it's 25x50), but with a 40x40 they have to cost really too much to can be used.
However, if you have any good idea about new magic items, just write and suggest
The cavalry base is a good idea, it removes one axis that the model could fall down over
I don't think Cavalry base is enough. I don't think the falling issue is a problem so much as the wingspan of the Birdmen interfering when you need to rank them up. I think it'd be easier to give them the 2 hand weapons they came with back in 5th edition, and make the minimum unit size 3 (Like most 40x40mm flyers). The only problem then is of course, they're only unit size 3 which isn't very useful for a flying unit.
I also don't think that Death and Life mages should be exempt. Death especially. It's more likely that Mercenaries will accept the help of a death mage than those of the Empire (Who would be wary of those who mess with Morr's realm). Is there any real reason to put the restriction? I would think that any kind of unlicensed mage would be rare. I'm not particularly fussed, but it just seems odd to exclude 2 types on very little fluff basis.
For the Desert Dogs. Wouldn't it just be easier to say for the Chilling Yell that the Desert Dogs cause fear when they charge? It's currently the same as having to take a fear test when charged by fear causing enemy (Flee if fail, those who cause fear, terror or immune to psych arent affected).
I think Tichi-Huichi's Raiders should be brought back into line with the 7th edition like they were previously (Maybe they were changed to 6th edition, and then 7th edition came out). Just odd to have discrepencies. So Great Crested Skink should be leadership 6, and Tichi-Huichi 7.
Also, was it really necessary to split it into 2 documents? I think it'd be better to have 1 complete document that is the entire army book. Regiments of Renown like the Manflayers not being included in the main document seems quite odd.
Isn't the Tilean 'style' of Dogs of War army just a more restrictive generic Dogs of War army? It just seems to me that the only advantage it has over a regular Dogs of War army is the fact that you don't need to have a Paymaster. Everything else is identical or worse (i.e Heavy Cavalry moving to Special, Restrictions on everything not human, especially regiments of renown).
The Up With Pikes rule ignoring panic caused by Heavy Cavalry is odd, I could understand Light Cavalry but ignoring the fact your Heavy Hitters just got smashed...
Overall, I do like what you've done with the Dogs of War army. Really enjoy it, but there's still room to work out those kinks.
Quote:I also don't think that Death and Life mages should be exempt. Death especially.
Agreed, especially since Lucreccia Belladonna is a Death mage.
This list has some premise, but a lot of work is still needed, especially with the paymaster. He should not take up a hero slot, his stats should possibly be buffed to those of a captain's, and the panic test range should be lowered to units within 12" imo. But that would still make him worse than the Bretonnian BSB. I don't think the panic test should disappear completely, other armies might still fight for their homes and lands if the general die, but Dogs of War only fight for money. But seeing as the paymaster means so much to the mercs, he should probably offer an extra boost to the army that other BSBs don't, like an increase in re-roll range to 18". Another idea I heard on Warseer is that they only take the panic test if the General is dead too, which might work.
Pikes still needs to be better, just lowering the cost isn't enough, they work fine against infantry at 8pts, but not against cavalry, which is their prime use.
Paymaster's bodyguard also needs a boost, they are the best human mercs out there, and they hit as hard as an Empire halberdier.
And Birdmen should be on 40mm bases, and have 2 hand weapons each to be able to take on warmachines, possibly give them light armour too, the models are sculpted with brigandine armour on the chest.
There are other things too, like costs of the magic items that needs to be looked over.
Lastly, some of the names really bug me. Like the pike champion being called a centurion. Why? Because most mercs are from Tilea, and the Romans were from Italy? Master shooter too just sounds corny. I could go on, but it's the rules that needs fixing first of course.
Anyway, good luck with all that. I might be able to add some direct input to the list later on.