Everybody has to have them, Core troops that is. As Dogs of War, we don't really have that many choices, we have 1 ranked infantry, 1 shooting unit, 1 skirmishing unit, and 2 types of cavalry. Do you take minimum core and load up on our special and rare choices? Do you go for a big infantry line? Do you make a gun...er xbow line? What size units do you take? Do you take command groups? Do you take magic banners (joking)? Do you use our core Regiments of Renown? Discuss.
I take everything but regular Pikemen. I use Ricco's instead, 30 strong. 8-10 strong Pistol Duellists, 5 strong Light Cav with music and spears, Voland's 6 strong, crossbow 10 strong no upgrades.
Pikemen and duellists.
Maybe a token Crossbow unit.
No Regiments of Renown, they don't fit the fluff for my army.
At least one large unit of pikemen, two minimum sized units of both duelists and crossbowmen. Then two too three units of heavy cav. No units of light cav so far, I've not found the room and i use the heavies for hunting duties alot. The only RoR i use as core is the Leopard Company sometimes.
(08-15-2009 04:02 PM)Slick Wrote: [ -> ]Everybody has to have them, Core troops that is. As Dogs of War, we don't really have that many choices, we have 1 ranked infantry, 1 shooting unit, 1 skirmishing unit, and 2 types of cavalry. Do you take minimum core and load up on our special and rare choices? Do you go for a big infantry line? Do you make a gun...er xbow line? What size units do you take? Do you take command groups? Do you take magic banners (joking)? Do you use our core Regiments of Renown? Discuss.
Been there, seen that, done that!
When youre core choices exceeds 2000 points you can and do all the above!
Pikemen unit size is normally 20
Heavy Cavalry size is normally 10 or 5/6
Duellist size is 8
Crossbow unit size normally 10
Light cavalry unit size is 5
I use in my army:
- Duelist with pistols or not. They are IMO the best core unit in our army. Cheep and effective.
- Crossbowmen - one unit must be in my army. They are very good to kill light unit like: l.cavalery, marksmen or war machines.
- Light cavalery - of course they can straighten charge and sometime attack some war machine.
- Haevy cavalery - cheep unit to flank attack. They can also protect Paymaster and attack war machines.
Pikemen suck, so I can understand them not getting votes, but Light Cav? They're a steal at Dogs of War prices!
(08-16-2009 07:24 AM)JohnHwangDW Wrote: [ -> ]Pikemen suck, so I can understand them not getting votes
You're obviously not using them right
I tend to take two units if i can, and they've never let me down yet. Duellists are great too.
(08-16-2009 04:22 PM)Baumann Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2009 07:24 AM)JohnHwangDW Wrote: [ -> ]Pikemen suck, so I can understand them not getting votes
You're obviously not using them right
I tend to take two units if i can, and they've never let me down yet. Duellists are great too.
How do you anchor the line? Or do you use cav/ogres to crush all flanking opposition?
Cav, Maneaters, and a mobile line of Norse.
Core wise, I usually go with 1-2 units of pikemen, 2 crossbows, 2 duellists. Haent used cavalry yet, but seing as I have played a grand total of 2 games(With my Dogs of War, that is), it is not surprising.
I have been kind of let down by my pikemen in my 2 games. Granted, I dont expect many humans to withstand a manticore to the flank.
My pikes didnt do anything all game, staying static and worrying about dark riders. Didnt move forward because I didnt want to get too close to the reaper bolt thrower and the unit of repeater crossbows
.
Cheers
Peyton
Well my core at 2,000pts goes:
2x 10 duelists with pistols
2x 6 Light cavalry with bows and spears
2x 10 crossbowmen
Alternatively with an all cavalry force I use three units of heavy cavalry and three of light cavlary, one of which is tooled up for flank attacks
(08-16-2009 11:45 PM)Wrath of Khan Wrote: [ -> ]How do you anchor the line? Or do you use cav/ogres to crush all flanking opposition?
No cav, they don't really fit, although i have some heavy cav converted up.
If you read Gold and Glory you'll find my usual strategy
I'm not going to ruin download figures by repeating it here
I've got a bit of mixture, 2 unit of light cav, 2 units of duelist (with pistols of course) and 1 unit of heavy cav.
My current set up is to give me a bit of everything, duelist are just fantastic, the light cav is a little expensive, but fast cav are always useful in an army - the only unit I strongly consider droping is the heavy cav, but i find the threat of heavy cav better then actually useing the heavy cav!
I have been debating on picking up some HE spearmen to use as pikemen - but considering you'd be needing about 25, I really don't want to have to buy 2 boxes.
I haved actually using pikemen, but they seem rather expenive and 'soft' for what you get. Fluff wise I think they'd fit my army just fine - after all the practially have ASF.
I used to play pikes, but have left them at home during my last couple of games; they're just too expensive.
My normal core choices are:
2x9 pistol duellists
2x10 crossbows
2x5 light cavalry with spears and a musician
6 Voland's
5 basic heavy cavalry with barding
Sometimes 25 pikes.
I think I could spend the points for the two knight units better on Ogres, but I hate Ogres
I agree with the pikes and their cost , and their lack of effectiveness ! I use duelists with pistols x 10 , crossbowmen x10 , Volands Venator's x9 , light cav x5 with bows , and light cav x5 with handweapons and shileds . Usually these are covered by the Paymaster's bodyguard and three units of Lbs . Nice strong centre .
Sadly the Dogs of War is in many ways akin to a Dark Elves army. Where people can spend hours talking about their Special slots, it usally only comes down to one or two units when it comes time to talk about core.
Normal Dogs of War (Core)
Pikemen ~I usally have better luck with my pikemen then most, as I use them offense and for control (most people don't like the idea of jumping into the teeth of a great white) , also this way they anit just siting for the whole game. Main down side is you have to have other unit to guard their flank.
Crossbowmen ~its good to have range
Light Calvary ~ somehow I end up with alot of light calvary models
Regiments of Renown
Al Muktar's Desert Dogs ~love these guys, one of the few Araby units in warhammer, plus magic banner
Vespero's Vendetta ~Unlike my other Duellists they usally live alittle longer.
Pirazzo's Lost Legion ~not a big fan of the Renown Pikemen unless I'm needing something from them (ex Leopold's Leopard company-fearless), but this is one unit I don't mind taking, also reminds of the old city guard units for Dark Elves.
Magic Banners
Wolfboyz, Bearmen, and Desert Dogs......
(I know two of them are Special slots, but you get the joke).
Quote:(most people don't like the idea of jumping into the teeth of a great white)
Unless they have tried it and found out that that Great White has rubber teeth. I've been a Dogs of War player for 5 years now and had never had an opponent who was afraid of charging pikemen in the front after the first encounter, they just don't kill enough.
(08-22-2009 04:08 PM)Bloodknight Wrote: [ -> ]they just don't kill enough.
Depends what you mean by enough. If you mean enough to ensure that on the next turn the enemy gets flank charged by something nasty, then mine always kill enough.
Just like any other unit in the game if you find they aren't working, you aren't using them properly, not saying anything about your gaming skills, but they probably don't fit your style.
(08-22-2009 03:22 PM)Jikoun_Blackmane Wrote: [ -> ]Pikemen ~I usally have better luck with my pikemen then most, as I use them offense and for control (most people don't like the idea of jumping into the teeth of a great white)
I agree that, if you take Pike, you need to advance them. The problem is that they're just far too expensive for what they do. Point-for-point,any "good" unit won't have any problem dealing with Pike one on one. And worst of all Heavy Cav, which should auto-lose to Pikes, will easily blow right through a Pike unit.
WS3 S3 Pike are largely an empty threat to anything except unarmored WS3 T3 opponents, and even in those cases, the opposition costs half as much.
For basically the same points, you can get a fast-moving Light Cav, Norse w/ GW to attack, a HA&S Dwarf to defend, or a Pikeman - which would you rather take?
(08-22-2009 06:40 PM)JohnHwangDW Wrote: [ -> ]For basically the same points, you can get a fast-moving Light Cav, Norse w/ GW to attack, a HA&S Dwarf to defend, or a Pikeman - which would you rather take?
with this a talk about core units that leave me with two.
Pikemen 11 heavy armour
Light Cavalry 11 base
Thing is, once you go to Heavy Pike with FC at that point, you might as well go with Ricco. Dogs of War Pike still aren't good in a competitive way.
Quote:If you mean enough to ensure that on the next turn the enemy gets flank charged by something nasty, then mine always kill enough.
That was the point I am trying to make. Pikemen have a hard time dealing enough casualties back to not lose combat and run away. A block of 25 pike costs roughly 300 points. A cavalry unit that costs 300 points can usually easily break them.
For 312 points, you can take 12 Bret Knights of the Realm with FC...
That's an easy auto-win for the Brets.
____
Now if, for 10 pts, you got a more historically-accurate WS4 S4 unit that Always Strikes First, cannot be flanked and able to fight in 4 Ranks in any direction, *then* they'd be closer to being worth their points.
Pikemen and Crossbowmen are poo.
The others are REALLY good, versatile core choices. Even some of the RoR are quite good.